Discussion:
dQuery and userfriendliness
(too old to reply)
Ivar B. Jessen
2004-01-24 18:05:38 UTC
Permalink
The following reports some problems in dQuery which are related to its design
and not to specific coding errors. If this is the wrong group please move it
to a more suitable place.

In attempts to make dQuery work I have noticed that dQuery and especially its
wizards do not follow the MS Guidelines for designing Wizards and the end
result is that dQuery is experienced as a very user unfriendly application.

Definition of a wizard:

A wizard is a series of presentations or pages, displayed in a secondary
window, that helps the user trough a task. The pages include controls that you
define to gather input from the user; that input is then used to complete the
task for the user.

Especially the following items from the Guidelines are important:

A) Design your wizard pages to be easy to understand. It is important that
users immediately understand what a wizard is about so they don't feel like
they have to read it very carefully to understand what they have to answer.

B) Make certain that the design alternatives offered by your wizard provide
the user with positive results. You can use the context, such as the
selection, to determine what options may be reasonable to provide.

C) Avoid a wizard design that requires the user to leave the wizard to
complete a task. Less experienced users are often the primary users of a
wizard. Asking them to leave the wizard to perform a function can make them
loose their context. Instead, design your wizard so that the user can do
everything from within the wizard.

D) Make certain that it is obvious how the user can proceed when the wizard
has completed its process. This may be accompliced by the text you include on
the last part of the wizard.


Example 1) The user wants to create a simple query from the Fish table.

As an example of a typical wizard in dQuery press the button 'Create a SQL
Query'. A window opens and the text promises that "This wizard allows you to
create a Query with columns and rows by writing a SQL Select statement. A SQL
Select statement allows you to define which rows and columns you wish to
retrieve".

We want to retrieve all columns and rows and with that in mind proceed with
the default selection 'Create a Query from a single Table', which in the next
window displays a list of databases. By careful reading we find that if our
database is not in the list we have to leave the wizard. Why is that? This is
not userfriendly. It should be possible to proceed without leaving the wizard.
Why didn't the wizard in the first page open a window from which one or more
tables could be selected, and if necessary also databases?

Continue by selecting database 'dBASESamples' and table 'Fish', we now se a
checkbox and a disabled mover. It is not clear what to do next, careful
reading is again required. The first impression is that we can't select
individual columns at all and need to uncheck the checbox in order to select
all columns. It would be much better to remove the checkbox and let the user
see a live mover where he can make a selection.

Click Next and get an info page with a single radio button which can not be
deselected (What is the purpose?).

(Bug here, click the 'Back' button all the way to the first page of the wizard
and then go forward again, when you reach the info page the single radiobutton
has disappeared, click next and get error:

Error: Variable undefined: NORMALOBJECTCOLOR
File: qDialog.cc
Routine: QEXPRESSION::ENABLEBUILDCONTROLS
Line: 845 )

Click Next and get a page where it is possible to limit the rows in the query,
but when we started out we were promised the wizard could create a query with
columns and rows which we could select, but nobody said that the rows needed
to be limited.

The only buttons working are 'Back' which doesn't solve the problem, 'Cancel'
which will make us loose all the work done until now, and 'Help' which
indicates that help is not installed. In other the wizard gave us a choice,
specified what we ccould get and is now unable to deliver. The worst thing is
that it knew all the time that it couldn't make a simpel query containing all
columns and rows in a table.

It is of course possible to continue by setting a condition like 'ID is not
Empty', but this just underlines that the wizard is simply not doing its job,
which is to allow the user to create a simple query. A wizard should _never_
spring a surprise like this on an unaware user and give him the feeling that
he has just wasted time which could have been used better.

If a condition is selected the wizard finishes with a query on the design
surface.


Example 2) The user wants to export the Fish table to an Excel file.

Select File->Export Wizard... and read the text carefully. From the second
paragraph we learn that we need to set up a Custom View, whatever that is; let
us hope that the wizard knows.

The third paragraph tells us that if the Custom View button is disabled, we
need to set one up. The button may be the same as depicted to the right of the
text, however clicking on any button in dQuery just gives a 'ping!', nothing
is enabled. Again we have to belive the wizard can solve this problem.

Reading on we understand we have to cancel the wizard and use the Custom View
Wizard on the Tool Panel. So click Cancel and Yes to an unneccessary
messagebox and start looking for a Tool Panel. Put the mouse cursor over the
each of the twelve pushbuttons to see if they give access to a tool panel,
then click all the menu items and the buttons below the menu, still no Tool
Panel.

Give up on the Tool Panel and try clicking on the button 'Custom View Wizard',
bingo a Custom View Wizard opens, click Next and get an emty mover. Deep
disappointment, click Next, get error:

No Fields Selected
You must select at least one field.

This indicates that the designer of this wizard has not understood that it is
not allowed to use error messages in a wizard. If the wizard needs anything to
fill the mover it is the job of the wizard (and the programmer) to open
whatever pages, windows og dialog boxes to get the necessary information.

Give up on this wizard, we obviously got a wrong advice from the previous
wizard. Let us go back and start all over again <sigh>

Select File->Export Wizard..., ignore the text, click Next and select Excel
Spreadsheet, Next, click folder button and get msgbox:

No current Query
"Current Query" not available. There may be no active query in your
dataModule.

Hmm, doesn't the wizard know or is it too lazy to take a look? Click Ok and
select a file name in the getFile() dialog box which opens, Save, Next, Finish
and get the same msgbox as before.

How is it possible that we can get that far? This wizard is not doing its work
at all. Instead of checking if a table is available it let us jump through all
the hoops and comes up with said messagebox which, if you press Ok, is
followed by an error:

Error: Data type mismatch. Expecting Object
File: qDialog.cc
Routine: GENERICFIELDTYPES::GENERICFIELDTYPES
Line: 3397

If the fish table had been placed on the design surface before the wizard was
started and the computer did not have Excel installed, the wizard would have
taken the user through all the steps of selecting the type of query, the file
format, the name of the destination file and checking if Excel should be
opened or not, and then it would come up with a message box declaring that
Excel was not found.

It is a large misunderstanding if the designer of this wizard believes that it
is justified to end up with an error message and dump the user. We are not
talking about a coding error, but a message which the programmer found
necessary because he couldn't continue. And why did he paint himself into this
corner? He simply neglected to check for the existence of Excel before he
opened the page which allowed selection of export to Excel.

And why is it necessary to open a database connection in order to export a
simple table to *.xls. Let the user select his table and when the export is
finished tell him that if he needs to repeat the export from time time he
should select a database, for example a LocalDatabase ( "." in the BDE) and
save the setup as a dmd, ie only require and carry out the steps that are
necessary to serve the users purpose.


Example 3) The use wants to make a Join between two copies of the Fish table.

Click button 'Create SQL Query', select 'Create .. Join ..', Next, get a page
telling you that the wizard will launch Create SQL Object, whatever that is,
and the SQL Designer. Click Finish and a gray form opens. The upper
radiobutton is selected and the entryfield is grayed out, click on the folder
icon, a getFile() dialogbox opens, now type the name you want your new sql
file to have, click open and get error saying that the file can not be found.
Why does the wizard allow a selection which is obviously wrong?

Now click Ok and the SQL designer opens together with an 'Add Table'
dialogbox. Select the Fish table twice, select all fields and connect the ID
fields. set ID = 5 and what do we do now?. The wizard did _not_ tell us what
to do with the sql file. Try to Save As and close the SQl designer. A correct
query is now sitting on the design surface, but the wizard should have saved
us from the panic experienced when closing the designer and not knowing if all
the preceeding work was lost.

Also the form 'Create SQL Query' would be much better if the lower radiobutton
was selected when it opens, the user doesn't know what to do when everything
looks like it is disabled, it is much better to let the user make his own
choice on a live form.

BTW said form should have been incorporated as a page in the wizard, its only
purpose is to ask for a file path in the same way as it is done in several
places in other wizards, it is unsetteling to be dumped first from the wizard
and then again into the SQL designer.


This posting became a little longer than intended, but hopfully it illustrates
why one may find that dQuery is not exactly userfriendly.

(Everything done with ldriver=windows in ini file)


Ivar B. Jessen
Ken Mayer [dBASE, Inc.]
2004-01-26 14:34:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivar B. Jessen
The following reports some problems in dQuery which are related to its design
and not to specific coding errors. If this is the wrong group please move it
to a more suitable place.
First, I have forwarded your entire message to R&D, as there are many
things here that are not bugs per se. Some of them are your opinion
based on an arbitrary set of guidelines created by Microsoft, and I am
not dealing with them.
Post by Ivar B. Jessen
Example 1) The user wants to create a simple query from the Fish table.
Click Next and get an info page with a single radio button which can not be
deselected (What is the purpose?).
This is in the bug system (QAID: 4016).
Post by Ivar B. Jessen
(Bug here, click the 'Back' button all the way to the first page of the wizard
and then go forward again, when you reach the info page the single radiobutton
Error: Variable undefined: NORMALOBJECTCOLOR
File: qDialog.cc
Routine: QEXPRESSION::ENABLEBUILDCONTROLS
Line: 845 )
I've entered QAID: 4675 for this.
Post by Ivar B. Jessen
Example 2) The user wants to export the Fish table to an Excel file.
Select File->Export Wizard..., ignore the text, click Next and select Excel
No current Query
"Current Query" not available. There may be no active query in your
dataModule.
How is it possible that we can get that far? This wizard is not doing its work
at all. Instead of checking if a table is available it let us jump through all
the hoops and comes up with said messagebox which, if you press Ok, is
Error: Data type mismatch. Expecting Object
File: qDialog.cc
Routine: GENERICFIELDTYPES::GENERICFIELDTYPES
Line: 3397
I've entered QAID: 4676 for this.


Ken
---
Ken Mayer [dBASE, Inc.]
** Please respond ONLY in the newsgroups **

"Think OOP"

dBASE, Inc. website: http://www.dbase.com
Ivar B. Jessen
2004-01-26 21:47:15 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 06:34:01 -0800
in dbase.bug-reports Re: dQuery and userfriendliness
Post by Ken Mayer [dBASE, Inc.]
Post by Ivar B. Jessen
The following reports some problems in dQuery which are related to its design
and not to specific coding errors. If this is the wrong group please move it
to a more suitable place.
First, I have forwarded your entire message to R&D, as there are many
things here that are not bugs per se. Some of them are your opinion
based on an arbitrary set of guidelines created by Microsoft, and I am
not dealing with them.
Sorry, it is only your opinion that the guidelines I have quoted from of is
"an arbitrary set of guidelines created by Microsoft" and the point you have
brought up is irrelevant.

What is relevant is that guidelines have been published by Microsoft to "..
promote good interface design and visual and functional consistency within and
across Windowsbased applications". As stated in the introduction to the
guidelines "The design of your software's interface, more than anything else,
affects how a user experiences you product".

Plus is certified for running under the Windows OS and users expect that the
MS guidelines and conventions are followed. If a wizard is designed according
to the guidelines it will run a process for the user without any errors due to
faults in the logic of the design and it will reach the desired result.

The wizards mentioned in the bug report do not work as expected, they tell the
user to get out and cancel for the sole reason that the designer has decided
that once a wizard has taken over it is not necessary, and should not be
expected, that the process started should run until the desired result is
reached.

This arbitrary decision by the designer may of course be regarded as just as
valid as the decisions taken somebody following the MS guidelines, but the
main point is that to a Windows user the wizards in dQuery are seen as not
behaving as he expects from a Windows application and he therefore finds
dQuery unfriendly.
Post by Ken Mayer [dBASE, Inc.]
Post by Ivar B. Jessen
Error: Variable undefined: NORMALOBJECTCOLOR
File: qDialog.cc
Routine: QEXPRESSION::ENABLEBUILDCONTROLS
Line: 845 )
I've entered QAID: 4675 for this.
Post by Ivar B. Jessen
Error: Data type mismatch. Expecting Object
File: qDialog.cc
Routine: GENERICFIELDTYPES::GENERICFIELDTYPES
Line: 3397
I've entered QAID: 4676 for this.
Thanks for posting the QAID's.


Ivar B. Jessen
Ken Mayer [dBASE, Inc.]
2004-01-26 21:50:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivar B. Jessen
What is relevant is that guidelines have been published by Microsoft to "..
promote good interface design and visual and functional consistency within and
across Windowsbased applications". As stated in the introduction to the
guidelines "The design of your software's interface, more than anything else,
affects how a user experiences you product".
And they are *guidelines*. Guidelines are that. They are not *rules*
that must be followed ...

Ken
---
Ken Mayer [dBASE, Inc.]
** Please respond ONLY in the newsgroups **

"Think OOP"

dBASE, Inc. website: http://www.dbase.com
Ivar B. Jessen
2004-01-26 22:21:09 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:50:52 -0800
in dbase.bug-reports Re: dQuery and userfriendliness
Post by Ken Mayer [dBASE, Inc.]
Post by Ivar B. Jessen
What is relevant is that guidelines have been published by Microsoft to "..
promote good interface design and visual and functional consistency within and
across Windowsbased applications". As stated in the introduction to the
guidelines "The design of your software's interface, more than anything else,
affects how a user experiences you product".
And they are *guidelines*. Guidelines are that. They are not *rules*
that must be followed ...
True, the designers of dQuery are of course free to ignore the guidelines, as
they obviously do. Nobody are forcing them to follow any rules at all, as long
as they can afford to follow their own design philosophy.


Ivar B. Jessen
charlesm (dBASE, Inc.)
2004-01-26 22:57:43 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for the time you spent showing usability issues that can cause
confusion. I am sure that we will be going over your points with great
interest. Also I would like to add that we are very familiar with the
guidelines and determine that they are general guidelines but specifically
do not address issues to accomplishing a data base required task. Aside from
following someone else's guidelines we need to ultimately address design
issues with the dBASE product and customers in mind. Thanks again for your
time and continuous help in identifying ways to improve dBASE.

Regards,
--
-charlesm (dBASE Inc.)
Marc Hamelin
2004-01-27 13:17:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Mayer [dBASE, Inc.]
And they are *guidelines*. Guidelines are that. They are not *rules*
that must be followed ...
Hey Ken,

Watch out... That quote could result in a very bad situation. Many people
might suddenly consider not following the newsgroup guidelines. And I'm
sure you don't you want that... Especially in bug reports... ;) Hehe.

Marc Hamelin
charlesm (dBASE, Inc.)
2004-01-27 18:30:49 UTC
Permalink
Especially in bug reports... ;) Hehe.

<ROFL>
--
-charlesm (dBASE Inc.)
Geoff Wass
2004-01-27 17:17:32 UTC
Permalink
Ivar,

Great stuff! All of us developers here could learn from the refreshing
points you raise. I do hope it is taken to heart by dBASE Inc. Just as first
impressions count for something when you go for a job interview, the users'
first impressions from the UI can lead to quick and firm opinions in favour
or against the product regardless of what power lies under the hood.
--
:-)


----------
Geoff Wass (dBVIPS)
Montréal, Québec, Canada


==========
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====
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More dBASE information at http://geocities.com/geoff_wass

Please reply in the news groups only.
Have you backed up your work?!
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==========
Post by Ivar B. Jessen
The following reports some problems in dQuery which are related to its design
and not to specific coding errors. If this is the wrong group please move it
to a more suitable place.
In attempts to make dQuery work I have noticed that dQuery and especially its
wizards do not follow the MS Guidelines for designing Wizards and the end
result is that dQuery is experienced as a very user unfriendly
application.
Post by Ivar B. Jessen
A wizard is a series of presentations or pages, displayed in a secondary
window, that helps the user trough a task. The pages include controls that you
define to gather input from the user; that input is then used to complete the
task for the user.
A) Design your wizard pages to be easy to understand. It is important that
users immediately understand what a wizard is about so they don't feel like
they have to read it very carefully to understand what they have to answer.
B) Make certain that the design alternatives offered by your wizard provide
the user with positive results. You can use the context, such as the
selection, to determine what options may be reasonable to provide.
C) Avoid a wizard design that requires the user to leave the wizard to
complete a task. Less experienced users are often the primary users of a
wizard. Asking them to leave the wizard to perform a function can make them
loose their context. Instead, design your wizard so that the user can do
everything from within the wizard.
D) Make certain that it is obvious how the user can proceed when the wizard
has completed its process. This may be accompliced by the text you include on
the last part of the wizard.
Example 1) The user wants to create a simple query from the Fish table.
<snipped a lot of work> This posting became a little longer than intended,
but hopfully it
illustrates
Post by Ivar B. Jessen
why one may find that dQuery is not exactly userfriendly.
(Everything done with ldriver=windows in ini file)
Ivar B. Jessen
charlesm (dBASE, Inc.)
2004-01-27 18:49:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Wass
Great stuff! All of us developers here could learn from the refreshing
points you raise. I do hope it is taken to heart by dBASE Inc.
Ditto, and we do, "usability" flaws are indeed critical to catch and correct
and it does take "users" feedback to point out nuances. Full time design
engineers can and do become jaded from the users point of view to some
degree! We all have a tendency to take some things for granted when we
design from the users point of view. It is great for me to see issues that
sometimes should be obvious to us and are surfaced by our users. This input
takes time to write up a report for us and we really thank (Ivar and Goeff)
and other folks for the time and consideration, as it helps every dBASE
user. we very much do indeed take it to heart as you say.

-tks
--
-charlesm (dBASE Inc.)
Geoff Wass
2004-01-27 19:16:55 UTC
Permalink
Charles,

Ivar is the one who deserves the credit. I'm just a "me too".

For the jaded developers, perhaps they should be given an opportunity to
involve themselves with users. Such interaction, done from time to time so
as not to be a burden, would help them to be more in tune with the market on
issues such as this. It might even inspire new ideas.

In any case, thank-you for confirming dBASE Inc's interest in examining this
issue and your concern for the user's experience.
--
:-)


----------
Geoff Wass (dBVIPS)
Montréal, Québec, Canada


==========
=======
====
=
More dBASE information at http://geocities.com/geoff_wass

Please reply in the news groups only.
Have you backed up your work?!
=
====
=======
==========
Post by charlesm (dBASE, Inc.)
Post by Geoff Wass
Great stuff! All of us developers here could learn from the refreshing
points you raise. I do hope it is taken to heart by dBASE Inc.
Ditto, and we do, "usability" flaws are indeed critical to catch and correct
and it does take "users" feedback to point out nuances. Full time design
engineers can and do become jaded from the users point of view to some
degree! We all have a tendency to take some things for granted when we
design from the users point of view. It is great for me to see issues that
sometimes should be obvious to us and are surfaced by our users. This input
takes time to write up a report for us and we really thank (Ivar and Goeff)
and other folks for the time and consideration, as it helps every dBASE
user. we very much do indeed take it to heart as you say.
-tks
--
-charlesm (dBASE Inc.)
charlesm (dBASE, Inc.)
2004-01-29 01:25:14 UTC
Permalink
A "me too" is very important, if it was not, we wouldn't ask for a "me
too".... or bother tracking such information.

Any engineer can to a degree become jaded, even customers who are engineers
:-) can also become jaded....

The point that I wanted to make was that it takes the whole customer and
designer collaboration of thoughts to make the product better. Most software
companies do not "consult" with customers in order to determine what the
customer eventually gets as software. In our case our developers are very
much talking to customers all the time. You are correct that customer
contact is important, and we already know that and believe that it is the
dBASE legacy that has kept us going for more then 20 years. Even with that
void not being an issue, becoming jaded is still very much a possibility...
I was not giving excuses for problems that exist nor did I want my statement
to become overloaded with conversation or advice, just positive
acknowledgment for some stellar feedback.

:-)
--
-charlesm (dBASE Inc.)
Michael Nuwer
2004-01-29 11:31:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by charlesm (dBASE, Inc.)
A "me too" is very important, if it was not, we wouldn't ask for a "me
too".... or bother tracking such information.
Charles,

I believe that under the current procedure for adding a "me too" to your
system biases your data. This is because we must wait until the
following Monday before we can add a "me too" record, which favors those
with good memories and extra time. It also means that some people who
desire a "me too" are not logged in the tracking system.

A case in point is QAID 4673. In the newsgroup thread there are five
express "me too" requests. All of the names in this thread are active
newsgroup participants. However, to date, only two of the five have
added a "me too" record to your tracking system.

I think it would be easy to add a "me too" temporary storage component
to your current tracking software. I'm thinking of something similar to
the dBASE Message Server sample, but rather than storing email messages,
it could store a "me too" records until Monday, and then post the stored
records with a TCP control.

Michael Nuwer
Post by charlesm (dBASE, Inc.)
Any engineer can to a degree become jaded, even customers who are engineers
:-) can also become jaded....
The point that I wanted to make was that it takes the whole customer and
designer collaboration of thoughts to make the product better. Most software
companies do not "consult" with customers in order to determine what the
customer eventually gets as software. In our case our developers are very
much talking to customers all the time. You are correct that customer
contact is important, and we already know that and believe that it is the
dBASE legacy that has kept us going for more then 20 years. Even with that
void not being an issue, becoming jaded is still very much a possibility...
I was not giving excuses for problems that exist nor did I want my statement
to become overloaded with conversation or advice, just positive
acknowledgment for some stellar feedback.
:-)
--
-charlesm (dBASE Inc.)
--
Michael Nuwer

dBASE Conference
Montréal, Canada
July 9-10, 2004
Marc VdB
2004-01-29 12:42:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Nuwer
A case in point is QAID 4673. In the newsgroup thread there are five
express "me too" requests. All of the names in this thread are active
newsgroup participants. However, to date, only two of the five have
added a "me too" record to your tracking system.
Thanks for the reminder :-)

Cu, Marc
--

------
www.vdblogic.de/dbl/homee.htm
------
Michael Nuwer
2004-01-29 22:10:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marc VdB
Thanks for the reminder :-)
You're welcome. <g>
--
Michael Nuwer

dBASE Conference
Montréal, Canada
July 9-10, 2004
Ken Mayer [dBASE, Inc.]
2004-01-29 14:38:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Nuwer
I believe that under the current procedure for adding a "me too" to your
system biases your data. This is because we must wait until the
following Monday before we can add a "me too" record, which favors those
with good memories and extra time. It also means that some people who
desire a "me too" are not logged in the tracking system.
This will be resolved soon. It's a case of logistics for handling the
location of two different systems.

Ken
---
Ken Mayer [dBASE, Inc.]
** Please respond ONLY in the newsgroups **

"Think OOP"

dBASE, Inc. website: http://www.dbase.com
John Fried
2004-01-29 14:51:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Mayer [dBASE, Inc.]
This will be resolved soon. It's a case of logistics for handling the
location of two different systems.
Good news, Ken!

I, too, have forgotten to post a number of "me too"s. I have more "Senior
Moments" than I'd like to admit these days... ;-)

John
Michael Nuwer
2004-01-29 22:04:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Mayer [dBASE, Inc.]
This will be resolved soon. It's a case of logistics for handling the
location of two different systems.
Thanks for the update. I'm pleased this is in the works.
--
Michael Nuwer

dBASE Conference
Montréal, Canada
July 9-10, 2004
Ken Mayer [dBASE, Inc.]
2004-01-29 22:10:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Nuwer
Post by Ken Mayer [dBASE, Inc.]
This will be resolved soon. It's a case of logistics for handling the
location of two different systems.
Thanks for the update. I'm pleased this is in the works.
So are Bowen and I. <g>

Ken
---
Ken Mayer [dBASE, Inc.]
** Please respond ONLY in the newsgroups **

"Think OOP"

dBASE, Inc. website: http://www.dbase.com
charlesm (dBASE, Inc.)
2004-01-30 01:53:08 UTC
Permalink
me too! <g>
--
-charlesm (dBASE Inc.)
.
Geoff Wass
2004-01-29 19:16:09 UTC
Permalink
Charles,

Thank-you for the reply. Indeed, you are right that anyone can become jaded
and that dBASE Inc has been in touch with customers. Sorry about the thread
drift.
--
:-)


----------
Geoff Wass (dBVIPS)
Montréal, Québec, Canada


==========
=======
====
=
More dBASE information at http://geocities.com/geoff_wass

Please reply in the news groups only.
Have you backed up your work?!
=
====
=======
==========
Post by charlesm (dBASE, Inc.)
A "me too" is very important, if it was not, we wouldn't ask for a "me
too".... or bother tracking such information.
Any engineer can to a degree become jaded, even customers who are engineers
:-) can also become jaded....
The point that I wanted to make was that it takes the whole customer and
designer collaboration of thoughts to make the product better. Most software
companies do not "consult" with customers in order to determine what the
customer eventually gets as software. In our case our developers are very
much talking to customers all the time. You are correct that customer
contact is important, and we already know that and believe that it is the
dBASE legacy that has kept us going for more then 20 years. Even with that
void not being an issue, becoming jaded is still very much a
possibility...
Post by charlesm (dBASE, Inc.)
I was not giving excuses for problems that exist nor did I want my statement
to become overloaded with conversation or advice, just positive
acknowledgment for some stellar feedback.
:-)
--
-charlesm (dBASE Inc.)
charlesm (dBASE, Inc.)
2004-01-30 02:02:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Wass
Thank-you for the reply. Indeed, you are right that anyone can become jaded
and that dBASE Inc has been in touch with customers. Sorry about the thread
drift.
no biggy indeed... and you bring up valid points nevertheless... and
usually I don't mind thread drift into more good conversation, but I am
about to leave for a well needed vacation.... we can pick it up in two
weeks.... :-) going to the Panama Canal :-) for picture taking heaven.... I
plan to regain some sanity <G>

Regards,
--
-charlesm (dBASE Inc.)
Geoff Wass
2004-01-30 18:45:27 UTC
Permalink
Charles,

Enjoy your holiday. I can't imagine why you need to regain your sanity <BG>,
but all the best to you.
--
:-)


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Geoff Wass (dBVIPS)
Montréal, Québec, Canada


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Please reply in the news groups only.
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Post by charlesm (dBASE, Inc.)
no biggy indeed... and you bring up valid points nevertheless... and
usually I don't mind thread drift into more good conversation, but I am
about to leave for a well needed vacation.... we can pick it up in two
weeks.... :-) going to the Panama Canal :-) for picture taking heaven.... I
plan to regain some sanity <G>
Regards,
--
-charlesm (dBASE Inc.)
charlesm (dBASE, Inc.)
2004-01-30 19:29:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Wass
Enjoy your holiday. I can't imagine why you need to regain your sanity <BG>,
but all the best to you.
<G> I decided to be pro active and take a vacation before the team decided
to "force" me! If everything goes as it should, this will be the first
inline release that I will have missed in fifteen or so years. :-(

Thanks Again,
--
-charlesm (dBASE Inc.)
Ivar B. Jessen
2004-01-27 20:28:23 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:17:32 -0500
in dbase.bug-reports Re: dQuery and userfriendliness
Post by Geoff Wass
Ivar,
Great stuff! All of us developers here could learn from the refreshing
points you raise. I do hope it is taken to heart by dBASE Inc. Just as first
impressions count for something when you go for a job interview, the users'
first impressions from the UI can lead to quick and firm opinions in favour
or against the product regardless of what power lies under the hood.
Geoff,

And the quick and firm opinions leads to the same results in both cases, no
job - no income, no sale - no income ;-)

BTW, what was your first impression when you, for the first time, opened
dQuery in Plus 2.2 and clicked 'Filter' -> 'Star Filter'?


Ivar B. Jessen
Geoff Wass
2004-01-27 21:05:34 UTC
Permalink
Ivar,

See comments below...
--
:-)


----------
Geoff Wass (dBVIPS)
Montréal, Québec, Canada


==========
=======
====
=
More dBASE information at http://geocities.com/geoff_wass

Please reply in the news groups only.
Have you backed up your work?!
=
====
=======
==========
Post by Ivar B. Jessen
On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:17:32 -0500
in dbase.bug-reports Re: dQuery and userfriendliness
Post by Geoff Wass
Ivar,
Great stuff! All of us developers here could learn from the refreshing
points you raise. I do hope it is taken to heart by dBASE Inc. Just as first
impressions count for something when you go for a job interview, the users'
first impressions from the UI can lead to quick and firm opinions in favour
or against the product regardless of what power lies under the hood.
Geoff,
And the quick and firm opinions leads to the same results in both cases, no
job - no income, no sale - no income ;-)
Thus the incentive for us to get it right.
Post by Ivar B. Jessen
BTW, what was your first impression when you, for the first time, opened
dQuery in Plus 2.2 and clicked 'Filter' -> 'Star Filter'?
Much the same as yours. I would understand it better if there were
documentation and examples. I expect those to come with time.
Ivar B. Jessen
2004-01-28 09:12:57 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:05:34 -0500
in dbase.bug-reports Re: dQuery and userfriendliness
Post by Geoff Wass
Post by Ivar B. Jessen
BTW, what was your first impression when you, for the first time, opened
dQuery in Plus 2.2 and clicked 'Filter' -> 'Star Filter'?
Much the same as yours. I would understand it better if there were
documentation and examples. I expect those to come with time.
Exactly ;-)


Ivar B. Jessen
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